#322734 - 02/07/04 06:02 AM
Re: "Firebreather's Lung" or ARDS
[Re: Maximus Ego]
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journeyman
Registered: 01/06/04
Loc: Houston, TX, in my chair, USA
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Pele and Dr. Mike , your articles were amazing. Pele my heart and blessing go to you in your recovery, and I'll hang a feather so the wind sends you strength. You're an amazing woman to have the courage to face sometihng like that and still hold that strength afterwards.
I'm going to email this thread link to my troop, we pretty much all breathe among other things. I doubt any of them will stop, I wont, but just the same I think this is an article that EVERY fire bug should read. By the sounds of it, spinning off the fuel from poi could have repercussions. Grant you there would be a MUCH smaller chance, but still, it makes you wonder.
_________________________
May the flame on your balls not be too hot
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#322735 - 02/07/04 06:16 AM
Re: "Firebreather's Lung" or ARDS
[Re: Raven_WolfeRun]
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HOP Mad Doctor
Registered: 28/05/01
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
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Raven, I don't think that the spray from a spinoff is aerosolized enough to be a true danger. The thing about breathing fire is that the source of the aerosol is your mouth, so you can easily inhale a very dense cloud.
_________________________
-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura
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#322736 - 05/07/04 05:18 AM
Re: "Firebreather's Lung" or ARDS
[Re: Doc Lightning]
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HOP Mad Doctor
Registered: 28/05/01
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
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Well, well, well... I just got a page today from the director of the medical school upper-class curriculum, who also happens to be a pulmonologist and critical-care specialist. He knew I'd be interested because I told him about Pele's and FireMike's cases. 21 year-old male, otherwise healthy, tried  Fire Breathing with Bacardi 151 while shytefaced drunk. Spray blew back in his face. I just saw the patient. He's intubated. He's incredibly sick. And his chest X-ray looks awful. He's being given drugs to keep his blood pressure up. Mercifully, he's not conscious. So, to answer the question about whether alcohol is a dangerous Fire Breathing substrate: HECK YES. Oh, and we have no idea if he'll live or not. Right now it's kind of up in the air. If he makes it through the next few days, then I think he'll do OK.
_________________________
-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura
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#322737 - 05/07/04 06:05 AM
Re: "Firebreather's Lung" or ARDS
[Re: Doc Lightning]
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Lord Ballchain
Registered: 21/08/01
Loc: Austin, Texas
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Written by: L i g h t n i n g
.
So, to answer the question about whether alcohol is a dangerous Fire Breathing substrate: HECK YES.
well, that answers that! If he pulls through, please thank him for satisfying my curiosity...
(please excuse the dark humor, but that is my mood this week)
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#322738 - 05/07/04 07:02 AM
Re: "Firebreather's Lung" or ARDS
[Re: Doc Lightning]
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Registered: 28/08/02
Loc: sheffield
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Written by: L i g h t n i n g
...................21 year-old male, otherwise healthy, tried Fire Breathing with Bacardi 151 while shytefaced drunk. Spray blew back in his face.
I just saw the patient. He's intubated. He's incredibly sick. And his chest X-ray looks awful. He's being given drugs to keep his blood pressure up. Mercifully, he's not conscious.
Poor guy 
hope he recovers.
I've been wondering just what the level of Fire Breathing severe injury/death annual toll is.
We've heard of a few on this board over the years, but they were generally fire people or performers.
I suspect that there could be a lot of cases like the one Mike mentions that no one really gets to hear about.
I, and several others, have posted about incidents where we've either seen, or heard about, people teaching beginners to fire breath whilst they were drunk at parties; so, possibly, this group could form the majority of tradgedies.
Does anyone know of a way in which such statistics could be checked? I guess the vast majority of Fire Breathing accidents must pass through the hospital system- do they have some kind of publicly accessible database?
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#322739 - 05/07/04 09:25 AM
Re: "Firebreather's Lung" or ARDS
[Re: onewheeldave]
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HOP Mad Doctor
Registered: 28/05/01
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
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BTW, this was not a professional performer. Just a drunk fratboy on his 21st birthday.
And no, there is no public database. Confidentiality, informed consent for participation in studies, etc.
_________________________
-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura
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#322740 - 05/07/04 12:23 PM
Re: "Firebreather's Lung" or ARDS
[Re: Doc Lightning]
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Registered: 28/08/02
Loc: sheffield
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Written by: L i g h t n i n g
BTW, this was not a professional performer. Just a drunk fratboy on his 21st birthday.
That's what bothers me- most professionals know the score where the dangers concerned- drunken kids at parties don't, and I can't see any reason why this type of incident isn't going to increase.
I just a search on the net, and there didn't seem to be any type of database of any kind on Fire Breathing accidents worldwide.
Plenty of warnings on juggling sites, several of which linked to Pele's article here on HOP.
Also, some of the HOP threads on breathing came in top five results on Google.
Which is all good as any beginner searching for Fire Breathing info has the chance to read some good advice on the dangers.
If anyone does know of a database, or can think of a good way of gathering the data, please let me know.
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#322741 - 05/07/04 09:24 PM
Re: "Firebreather's Lung" or ARDS
[Re: onewheeldave]
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Mistress of Pink...Multicoloured
Registered: 06/04/02
Loc: Over There
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Onewheeldave - thats actually a very good point. How can people who dont know of the fire communities and such know of the dangers of Fire Breathing? If they have just seen it on TV, and then try it when they are drunk or such they have no way of knowing the dangers.
_________________________
Never pick up a duck in a dungeon...
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#322742 - 06/07/04 12:03 AM
Re: "Firebreather's Lung" or ARDS
[Re: Pink...?]
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member
Registered: 19/07/02
Loc: London
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Forgive me if this seems like a bit of a crass comment, but surely anyone with half a brain must realise that Fire Breathing is going to be dangerous in *some* way? Of course there's no way a drunk student is going to know the risk of something like ARDS.... I guess my point is that I don't see how it's possible to prevent drunk stupid people from doing drunk stupid things without stopping people from ever getting drunk or stupid, if you see what I mean.....  Fire Breathing, driving, any kind of jackass style antics, whatever. I do feel massive sympathy for the poor guy above, but at the same time we can't wrap everyone up in cottonwool for their entire lives. We can and we must spread the word among those who do play with fire in other ways. I've passed on the above articles (with reference and credit) to friends of mine who have been experimenting with Fire Breathing and some have stopped as a result. Hurray! Once again, very thought provoking, thank you all so much.
_________________________
Why is it that everthing which is fun is illegal, immoral, or fattening?
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#322743 - 06/07/04 12:24 AM
Re: "Firebreather's Lung" or ARDS
[Re: Ali-bird]
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veteran
Registered: 15/05/03
Loc: London/ Surrey
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Ali-bird... it's not that they don't know it's dangerous, but a lot of people are fooled by how 'easy' it is: 'Yeah, it could be dangerous, but it's so easy to do, you just have to be careful.'  People have actually said this to me, and laughed when I ask if they've read anything about Fire Breathing (pointless getting a book on it when they already know how to do it  )
I was wondering if there is or could be a page to print out in the Fire Breathing section for a worst case scenario (as in Pele's accident). I've read that (can't find where though) doctors treating such accidents have been put in touch with Pele's doctors for guidance, and that even highly trained medical staff can be uncertain of the exact appropriate treatment for such an unusual injury. I don't firebreathe, but know people that do, and if all went wrong, I'd find it extremely reassuring to have some advice like this, reminding me (easy to forget at such a horrible moment) to supply the MSDS for the fuel used, that moist oxygen may be required/ requested etc, maybe even a contact number to medical staff that have dealt with this kind of injury before.
(If I'm being thick and have missed the whereabouts of this article, give me a kick in the right direction? Thanks!)
Edited by polythene (06/07/04 12:28 AM)
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#322744 - 06/07/04 02:07 AM
Re: "Firebreather's Lung" or ARDS
[Re: polythene]
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Registered: 25/09/02
Loc: Worcester, soon to be Sligo
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I've personally met 5 non performers who fire breathe and are not aware of the risks. One tried to tell me is that the reason people get hurt is because they get too experimental with fuels while the 'fire water' he uses is totally safe.  No matter what I said to this guy he didn't hear a thing I said....not one thing. I was wrong and that was it. Another started stealing our parafin and breathing without asking while drunk. I know everyone's heard of and seen the same thing stories again and again but OWD has a serious point there. Performers tend to know the risks, where as most people don't (I think there's more idiots than performers from my experience).
_________________________
I live in a world of infinite possibilities.
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#322746 - 06/07/04 06:53 AM
Re: "Firebreather's Lung" or ARDS
[Re: Doc Lightning]
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member
Registered: 28/02/04
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Another anecdote about Fire Breathing with alcohol. I have a bottle of 200 proof pharmacutical alcohol. (don't ask) I took it to the weekly gathering here in Los Angeles and donated some to the best fire breather in the group. He took a mouthful and blew an incredible blue dragon up into the night sky. And then was drunk on his ass. He started out stone cold sober and then was incapacitated the rest of the evening. (Another thing to watch out for.) Maximus
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#322747 - 06/07/04 07:48 AM
Re: "Firebreather's Lung" or ARDS
[Re: Maximus Ego]
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HOP Mad Doctor
Registered: 28/05/01
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
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Yeah. Alcohol is absorbed across the mucosa (the lining) of the mouth, esophagus, stomach, and of course, the small intestine. It never even makes it to the colon.
_________________________
-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura
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#322748 - 03/10/05 06:46 AM
Re: "Firebreather's Lung" or ARDS
[Re: Maximus Ego]
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HOP Mad Doctor
Registered: 28/05/01
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
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I can't say that Fire Breathing or that fire fuel has been associated with liver cancer. This is simply because I'm not aware of any literature that has made this connection. It doesn't mean that there isn't a connection, just that nobody's looked. Oh, it's probably known to be a carcinogen in animals, but testosterone is also shown to be carcinogenic in animals (laugh it up, ladies...estrogen is also carcinogenic...at least in California).
_________________________
-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura
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#322749 - 04/10/05 10:55 PM
Re: "Firebreather's Lung" or ARDS
[Re: Doc Lightning]
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member
Registered: 01/10/05
Loc: Glasgow-ish
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Remember though that it's not just pneumonitis you have to worry about. Incorrect technique can lead to lung collapse when oxygen is pulled from the lungs by the flames and causes an acute chance in pressure. I was in hospital this summer for a lung collapse (not due to fire) and now that i've had one i'm more likely to have another, hence I am completely giving up Fire Breathing. I was well aware of the risks whilst performing but still did it. Apart from the regular cases of the squits and parafin burps I never had any mishaps. Nobody I have performed or practiced with has come to harm either. We are all, however, safety-nazis when it comes to our fire.
_________________________
Live life the fun way
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#322751 - 05/10/05 08:40 AM
Re: "Firebreather's Lung" or ARDS
[Re: Doc Lightning]
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member
Registered: 01/10/05
Loc: Glasgow-ish
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t'was an anaesthetist who told me about it. One of the journals, can't remember which, did an article about unusual injuries from hobbies, and Fire Breathing and fire-eating got mentions. Fire-breathing was linked to pneumonitis and lung collapse whereas fire-eating caused partial blindness in some cases through overheating of the optic chiasm (bitemporal hemianopia)
Still, plate-spinning remains statistically the most dangerous circus skill having claimed a high fatality rate from accidents..... mind you all it took was that one guy to fall onto a stick and it going straight through his heart to radically alter the statistics. While fire-performers do come a cropper every now and then, thankfully they mostly survive it.
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#322752 - 05/10/05 12:33 PM
Re: "Firebreather's Lung" or ARDS
[Re: Azrelle_]
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Registered: 10/07/05
Loc: Preston
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I never realised the danger from Fire Breathing was from the fuel going itno the lungs, I allways new Fire Breathing was dangerouse but I assumed it was all to do with the fire itself, not what you use as fuel. Makes me wanna do some further education on biology, my favourite science.
_________________________
Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat
'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?
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