"Firebreather's Lung" or ARDS

 Written by: Pele

 Written by: Doc Lightning


On the other hand, you cannot live a long and healthy life when you've scarred your lungs.

I am going to take extreme exception to this statement, thank you very much.

 Written by: Stout


OWD...Do you figure it's firebreathers who were firebreathers first and trying to associate themselves with the spinning art / I suppose, but in my experience it's been spinners who want to "up their game", so to speak.

Personally, I wouldn't say spinners getting into Fire Breathing would be 'upping their game'

Decent spinning takes a lot of time and practice to be skillful, whereas, apart from a small minority of true professionals, most fire-breathing is a cheap stunt that requires a minimum of skill and that can be (and all too often is), 'learnt' in one session.

It would be nice if some of those fire-breathers who can fire-breath and nothing else, applied themselves to learning spinning or juggling- then the expression 'upping their game' might be appropriate.

Of course there are people who both fire-breath and spin, many of whom naturally have an interest in fire-breathing not being critisised to the extent that it starts to be seen in a negative light.

I think it's fair to say that this was even more so a few years back (that spinners would also fire-breath).

And, thinking about that, maybe part of the problem is the performance side of things, cos fire-breathing can be seen as a very useful bit of spectacle in a situation where you're performing for the public.

So, whereas with spinning/staff/poi- if you're truly into it, you'll be practicing it regardless of whether or not you're a performer (or planning to be one).

And many spinners who are into fire-spinning, would continue to do it even if they're never intending to perform.

As an extreme thought experiment, imagine if you wake up in some science fiction scenario where everyone else has gone and you're the only human being left on the planet.

Will you continue to juggle/spin- if so, then you know that you're genuinely into spinning/juggling in a very pure way.

Would most fire-breathers in that situation continue to fire-breath?

I doubt it.

And, for the minority who would, I'd have to admit that, yes, they are genuinely into it purely for the love of it and they are probably worthy of being referred to as 'fire-artists'.

But, from what I've seen, they are a small minority- most fire-breathers seem to be in it either cos it pulls in some cash for gigs, or it's a cheap way to impress drunken girls at parties, or, they're just too lazy to learn something which requires genuine skill/committment, or, they're just plain confused, having been impressed by some other fire-breather at one of the aforementioned drunken parties.

Hopefully none of that will cause offence to that minority who are true professional fire-breathers- I hope I have made the distinction clear. It's just unfortunate that, over the years, I've seen, and heard of, some truly shoddy behaviour from 'fire-breathers' who don't deserve to be referred to as artists or professionals.

In fact,if you think about it, where true professional fire-breathers are concerned, it's probably in their own best interests that we do face up to the fact that there are some real idiots out there who've learnt to fire-breath (badly) and have deluded themselves into thinking that there meagre skill entitles them to perform/call themselves professionals/'teach' vulnerable newbies.



Perhaps a danger here is that I'm just plain prejudiced against fire-breathers?

Most of my personal experience of fire-breathers has been with the 'idiot' end of the scale- I've never actually met a real professional or someone who truly loves fire-breathing as an art and develops it as such.

And, the more I distance myself from fire-breathing, I guess the less likely it is that I am going to bump into someone who does do it 'properly'.

The few people I know who did fire breath and who I did respect as doing so intelligently, basically did it for a while and then stopped.

 Written by: Stout


One can't deny the relationship between poi and fire, nor deny the relationship between any of the toys we discuss here and fire either.

(...)Realistically we can't deny the connection between HoP and Fire Breathing.

(...) If people are wanting to try this, then they're going to and I see no harm in giving out the correct, factual information about this activity along with the warning about how dangerous it is.

It's true, spinning and fire (realistically spoken) are strongly connected, hence - as a community - we shoot our own leg, if we'd actively encourage ppl to breathe fire (which is not the case). I can't find too much connection between HoP and Fire Breathing at present and am really happy about it.

Health warnings alone just don't work on young, enthusiastic and healthy individuals, who think life never ends and their strength never ceases. As AmaraO suggests: If someone approaches the community about information on Fire Breathing, we should supply those regarding the dangers involved and direct him to a professional. It should be consensus to actively discourage him. Did I already mention that information IMHO does not equal education?

A sloppy remark that he knows about the dangers involved is all it needs to open up another thread on the same (disliked) topic and receive what he wants? We should display more backbone... I didn't mean to offend anyone, least Pele, to the contrary I am happy with the way Malcolm set this site up and the way it's operated.

I don't really mourn firebreathers (as such). A decline in active firebreathers over the past years is one of the things I really enjoy as they were only sucking heavily on my fuel supply to perform a cheap and yucky act and actively endangered my health and wellbeing... in short:

(dsclmr: "in their function") I regard firebreathers the SUV's of the fire-scene...

 Written by: FireTom


(dsclmr: "in their function") I regard firebreathers the SUV's of the fire-scene...

That's one the best, consise-summings-up, I've ever seen.

 Written by: onewheeleddave


Where fire-breathing is concerned- historically, there's always been a keeness amongst many fire-breathers to be seen as closely connected with the arts of spinning (poi/staff etc).

Okay, *very* quick Fire Breathing history lesson shall we?

In Ancient Greece soldiers were known to toughen themselves and prove themselves through use of fire, including expelling it from their mouths. This was actually a part of the Greek Epic Antigone.
There has been documentation dating back to 150 BC a Syrian named Eunus, a priest claimed he spoke with gods using fire mystically forming from his lips.
It's the earliest Fire Breathing we know of.

From there you can find it in Hindu practices, where it was a practice of the Fakir (ie: faker) along with numerous other performance arts practiced today.

The concept of Circus as we know it came about later through a blending of the Greek and the Asian concepts, of which neither used Fire Breathing as an act. Fire Breathing did not make a strong showing in circus until much later, in the sideshow heyday in the late 1800's through the early 1900's before it took it's turn into the sideshow tent. It has had a strong showing in circus', other than in parades, since. It is really rare and hard to find a circus where someone just stands there and breathes fire.

Now to address the statement of their being less firebreathers than ever. That is a huge laugh. There are more than ever and more seeking to learn everyday. Because you don't see them does not mean they do not exist. The Melbourne Fire Breathers Club had over 300 members before the organizers got too busy to keep it organized. The professional fire eaters/breathers group I am part of gets over 50 requests a week for membership (we are by invitation only after reviewing applications), many of which we turn down.
And most of our members do not have the slightest notion how to do poi, some have never heard of it. They are fully seperate and most Fire Breathers that I know do not want any part of the fire spinners culture and view it in a manner similar to many of the ney saying jugglers actually.

As part of our questionaire we ask where people were referred to Fire Breathing/eating, and most say television/movies. The next most popular answer is street festivals and faires.

I am going to very much have to disagree with the statements that it wouldn't be so popular without spinning or circus and that it's on a decline.

In the past year alone I can tell you that I've seen a HUGE amount of people who *think* they can do Fire Breathing (as well as other fire arts) compared to last year. And it's sad, because I'm not kiddin when I say they "think".

 Written by: The Misguided Oracle


I'm certain there wouldn't have been Fire Breathing outside of circadia

 Written by: FireTom


And to explain my (meanwhile hostile) opposition to Fire Breathing and ppl doing it:

My last encounter with a firebreather has been a few months back: I was spinning fire in a ditch on the beach, when this guy thinks it would be a "nice stunt" to breathe fire and involve me in the fireball... so he involves me into his stupidity and irresponsible behaviour by spitting Kerosene over me whilst I was spinning Poi. Meaning I have been covered in Kerosene: Hair, skin, clothing...

This has been the second occasion that a guy just does it without asking for my nod, the first time has been with powder (not as dangerous) a few years back. But madness seems to prevail along with stupidity.

So if YOU only learn from pain, why would this have to include ME (as a victim)?

You know Tom, no offense and this is written in a tone of exhasperation more than anything, you need to move on. I am not avert to your plight to rid the world of Fire Breathers (though I also don't support it at all), but I am to the tone you take with it AND I would like to add that no matter what of these arts you enter into there are idiots who will get you hurt.

Many of us who perform or have spun with strangers have horror stories like this.
I shared mine with you in another thread, so I'll not do it here.

Flashfire was seriously burned not that long ago because of idiots.
I was wickedly burned years ago because of idiots.
My friend Bennie had his stage catch fire because of idiots.
Reign in Vegas has some lovely scars up his back from idiot Fire Breathers.

None of us who've been stuck in a bad sit use it as a basis to judge everyone else who does those arts, and yet you seem to, very aggressively.

It's a sad and horrible statement but when you enter into *any* of these arts you are going to come across morons who think they know more than they do. They are not the standard, and being bitter and aggressive will *NEVER* help people understand your point, not when your tone gets in the way. Go ahead and deny it if you will, but your tone in more than this thread has exhibited an extreme amount of bitterness.
The louder you say don't, the less people will listen you.

People here have known others who have been hospitalized and/or died because of Fire Breathing, well outside of me. I know you have no pity or respect for that, your choice and fine, but I think your arguement about being spit on by one single idiot is pretty weak in comparison.
Especially that you blame all Fire Breathers, or those who intend to, for one person. You are seeming to assume everyone will be stupid as well, and that is simply not the case.

You got off easy. Be happy for that and move on because continuing to be pissed over something like this isn't going to help your cause. (Repeated Note: I am not at all avert to your cause to rid the world of Fire Breathers, but I am to the tone in which you do it and I feel like you are wasting your breath doing so, as evidence by the other thread where the person asking for info is not at all listening to you).

Is this an excuse for the idiots? Not a chance.
But if I spent all of my time and energy fighting them, I would never get to my shows.
You have to realize, you can't stop them. There are way too many.

Which leaves you with choices.
Inform/educate
Ignore and move on
or quit outright

Since you are choosing to not inform/educate, and I wouldn't want to see you quit at all, then I would suggest that you stick to private parties in private locations and just move on, or you will be angered and disappointed again, I garuntee.


Sorry, hijack over, back to your regularly schedule ARDS convo.

 Written by: The Misguided Oracle


i'm certain there wouldn't have been Fire Breathing outside of circadia

 Written by: Stout


OWD...by upping their game, I was speaking from an already spinning fire performer looking to all a little more drama to their act perspective. Really, audiences love it, especially at the opening of an act when they get exposed to the big wooooosh and blast of heat that instantly dispels any of those strange myths that we hear about on here once every blue moon about spinners using "real fire"

I know that audiences 'love it'.

Then again, in times/places where public executions/hangings/guilotinings took/take place, there's rarely a shortage of audience, who presumably are enjoying the spectacle

Now I know that a fire-breath is a very different thing to a execution, I'm simply pointing out that just because an audience loves it shouldn't necessarily override the reservations we have about fire-breathing.

I can guarantee that, in any audience, there's a portion who, if they knew the real risks and health consequences of Fire Breathing, would do exactly the same as me i.e. walk away, cos, to watch it is to support it and I/they don't want to support a performer who, in a real sense, is publicly self-harming.

And I think where education is concerned, this is a very important point- we all know the limitations of 'education' when it's directed towards (as Firetom puts it) the 'young immortals' who are wanting to learn to perform this- let's recognise the importance of also educationg the audiences and those who actually book these acts.

Cos, at least a portion of those who are watching/booking those acts, would think twice if they knew the reality of the risks of fire-breathing and the long term health consequences.

 Written by: Pele



Fire Breathing as a professional art takes a TREMENDOUS amount of skill and control. Anyone can fling any form of fire around but to do any of it well takes skill and control.

This is the problem- anyone can fling fire around without skill and control and, unfortunately, where I am, they make up the vast majority of 'firebreathers' I've encountered- maybe it's the same for Firetom, which would account for his hostility.

Serioiusly, in all the times I've seen firebreathers, there's very few occasions where they appeared professional, competant or even had any basic safety equipment.

But I've seen a good few who were drunk/stoned, a couple with beards who set their face on fire and heard about a couple who were doing the student party thing and encouraging drunken party goers (usually young women) to have a go.

I think when you're in an environment where there are virtually no competent/professional breathers, but plenty of idiots- that's when you start to say 'no Fire Breathing near me please'.

I took Tom to mean that, were he in some way organising a meet- he'd disallow Fire Breathing: I would do exactly the same in that position.

It's all well and good to say we should simply move, but, in the context of a fire meet, that's not really practical.

No-ones stopping the fire-breather from breathing fire, simply saying don't do it near us.

In the same way that we wouldn't want the afforementioned hypothetical home-made flame thrower enthusiast practicing near us, or that we wouldn't want heroin addicts shooting up near us.

They'll all welcome to do these things, just do them somewhere else.

As a fire spinner, I would not crash someones barbeque space and insist on spinning there- I'd ask and, if they said 'no', then that's totally fair enough- move on and find a place to spin where I'm not unwelcome.

Why then, should a fire breather have the right to do their stuff amongst a group of spinners who don't want them there?

 Written by: Pele

Maybe Tom, because they are people, and you seem to regard them as less than. Unless of course you don't mourn anyone who's ever had any kind of accident. At which point I will at least say you are consistent.

 Written by: Pele

I never said you *had* to share your fuel or supervise, and if they are doing it near you, instead of stopping them, then move. You stepping on someone's right to do their thing because you don't like it is completely selfish. I can hear it now, that they are stepping on your right. Not really. Only if they ask you to leave or stop. You are not the law Tom, you have no right to act as such. You make the decision to not like it, then move.

No I'm not the law and I will move unless it's under my supervision. In which case I will stop them. Someones rights or personal freedom end when they actively endanger my health and wellbeing and those who trust theirs into my hands.

If you're "actively" encouraging 'education' (not equalling mere 'information'), you'd direct them to a responsible individual near their location as much as you provide online informations.

But thanks for making me aware that my perception of the world is not on the entire picture, but on fractions. The FB's that I came across have been 90% incompetent and 9% irresponsibly stoned out of their skulls whilst performing their act. I have met 1% responsible firebreathers who were displaying and practising the necessary precautions.

Add the articles that I linked to and you will find my stance being solidly based upon responsibility and reason. I don't feel like finally getting hurt by some looney, only that Pele then accepts my personal point of view, which is only applicable to my personal space.

If you - for the sake of 'art' - decide to put the safety and health of those at risk who trust you, then it's your personal choice. There is nothing I can do about it, but stay away from your events and gigs.

To me, firesafety (especially at a public gig) is the highest priority. Which is why - in all the eleven years playing with fire - I have not caused more than a bruise on a fellow spinner and have never seriously endangered any of my audience...

Call me 'boring'

No, I haven't met each and every firebreather on the planet and yes (thanks again) my picture depends on fractions. But I don't judge them outside their performance, be assured.

As for the rest I would prefer you coming back to facts and reason, thus leaving behind personal attacks. Thanks dear.

 Written by: FireTom


Fire Breathing with my fuel? NO
Fire Breathing under my responsibility and supervision? NO
Fire Breathing anywhere near where I am sitting? NO

As long as I can do something against it, I will. If it's in my responsibility, the insisting firebreather will get expelled. There will be no Fire Breathing at the Body Arts Convention. Period.

My lord. You sound like a representative for "Partnership for a Fire Breathing-Free America" or something.

You try hard enough to ban something and it will only make it that much more enticing.