Fire commune

Ok so a thought has recently come to me that would require quite a few hands and quite a bit more preperation. All I want to do with the rest of my life is spin fire and enjoy living. I know I am not alone in this desire. Therefore the only sensible thing in my mind has been to save up enough money to buy some land somewhere, make a generous sized garden, and live. The basic needs of food and shelter would be covered. Next comes the idea of companionship, and in marches the commune ideal. All comments welcome, but this really is a serious idea of mine so lets not get too out there folks. Possible location: ALASKA; homestead act is still viable in alaska meaning you pick a plot of land, make it better, and after seven years its yours. Any takers?

Interesting idea... I might be interested if I wasn't on the other side of the world.

This is a massive undertaking! Pick your plot carefully!

Icarus: People get off the plane in Alaska and never get back on all the time.

There's plenty of nowhere on the South Island or over in Australia.

Alaska is too unforgiving. Why not pick something out here in the AZ desert? There are tons of amazing places here.

and the commune ideal? like everyone is sharing everyone else?

Hey, I had an idea like this once, except it was situated more around Hawaii.

I think it's a fantastic idea, though performing would then be your number 1 income source, n'est-ce pas? The Hawaii idea I had come up with involved creating a large farm for income. I forget what the exact "thing" was called, but I was told you could obtain grants in order to fund agricultural ventures which is why I had come to that.

I mean, anything is possible, you just need time and in this case probably people.

Let me know what you come up with.

Hah Poje.

Not all communes involve... um.... Sharing of people. Though.... some may not mind if it did include that... eh? lol

Hawaii would be awesome.

AZ not so much... AZ is Texas, with far less prospect and plant life, trying desperately to act like California.

The are you choose would need to be somewhere that supports life. As a commune you need to try to be self sufficient. Grow your own crops have a well all of that. I am much interested in this.

Hydroponic cash crops will make you self-sufficient!

Yes, I am a big fan of hydropronics.... ^_^

Seriously though, I have always been a fan of performer communes, I have just yet to find the right people....
Maybe sooner than later, eh? =)

You mean as in 'family friendly'?

i'm in! * sounds awesome not quiete sure what skills i would bring in but hydroponic product tester sounds like the job for me

Either way really Refuge. I'm a fan of home grown foods and manual labor, so... yeah.

It would have to be 'family' friendly if I am too bring my extensive knowledge to the table.

In Alaska, you can grow legally, distribution is another issue. Alaska has a short growing season but the extra hours of daylight gives you huge growth. Logistics and materials are your real issues, in the wilderness you are somewhat forced to be self-reliant.

Unless I'm trying to *ahem* "start a family", most everything I do is family friendly, aside mainly from cracking horrible jokes in front of friends.

I love the quick responce this has gotten. As far as the Alaska thing, i Feel its very doable but it would be a much more isolated endeavor, i.e. not for the faint of heart. Having a well wouldn't be much of a problem I'm thinking because of all the snow and such.
Now after living in Hawaii a while back I know that would be an amazing location but I haven't looked much into it as a possible locale.
To explain what i meant about the communal ideal: In order to really enjoy living you have to be able to share the experience with another; we are social animals. This is not to single out or specify a type of relationship but only to recognize that others need to be involved in this venture.
Now, an interesting little test idea i thought of would be to start a small group, call it a test site, to gather the knowlege and needed resources to prepare for alaska(or hawaii, or wutever the final choice is). It could be as simple as a fire team or a group of fire teams spread accross several states, it can get as organized as you want.
What it boils down to is the fact that i don't feel right in this world, call it escapism if you like, but this is something that very well can happen.

Keep the ideas a flowing =)

Hm, this has my attention Not for me to do personally, but definately like the concept. Definately something I would support and visit. If things go the way I wish, donate to the commune as well.

The well in the wilderness part of Alaska would freeze over in winter. They have to dig graves in Alaska during the summer and hope that they have anticipated the amount of deaths right because it's not possible to dig 6 feet even with heavy machinery.

i would love this to be more than a dream. I only have one problem though. Having spent all my time in the tropics and having never been anywhere that gets cold enough to snow i dont know how well i would go aclimatising(sp?). imagine all the crazy moves a commune of spinners would produce.

Ascilith we would need you to visit as we would need an apostle or monkof sorts to carry all of the knowledge and crazy moves out into the world. Do you feel up to the task?

EDIT:removed faux pas best left unread

another thought we would need to make sure HoP can air drop materials for us wherever we decide to pitch camp

Ascilith should just bring the stuff on his visits

I think it's doable, and I have always loved the idea of a communal living situation.
Sex aside, I love just being around awesome people and friends, though having an "other" might be nice, it's not on the top of my list of important things to accomplish in the near future anymore.
Yeah, and I mean, Alaska is pretty and all, but *shrug*. Who knows. Only time will tell.

hehe our monkish apostle delivery guy

This really should be in the 'Ask a dumb question get a dumb answer' thread:

Hey forum filled with mostly hippies and party kidds, what do you think about a commune? Of course we think it's AWESOME!

I also find irony in the fact that it can out of Dan.

im not a hippy or a party kid...so speak for yerself!


a couple notes to take into account, we need electricity to power our computers to get onto HoP. Solor panels might be a good idea..with the extended light hours and such (speaking alaska of course)

Hence the adverb 'mostly'....

Note there are also extended hours of dark in Alaska. Wind power and back up ethanol generators would be more winter reliable.

I have always been interested with the idea of being a monk, I am not particually religious, more spiritual. I do however like the outdoors, growing my own food, I feel that hard work should have its rewards. I also keep bees, which I enjoy doing...so yes commune sounds great!

ah crap, just thought of something, Can any of you make really good beer?

haha you wouldn't be a monk as much as you would be an apostle. Id love to be apostle/move person/supply person! I'd need to know exactly what that entails but it sounds like an amazing idea Specially cuz I want to live in new zealand some day anyways lol. I'd be like right next to HoP in comparison to alaska. That and I'd always be growing in my move library so to speak.

Wheres the irony in my name? or is that a stupid question in and of itself?
I have been looking at lot prices and it looks like a decent piece of land with running water access and plenty of trees runs at about 50 grand- with 20 plus acres to roam through

this is a lot when its just one person but thinking in terms of 50 or so people plus the possibility of outside doners, its a very realistic prospect.

With regards to weather- we're not talking northern alaska where theres thirty days of night. Access to a running river is key. Aside from that, shlters can be built, food gathered/hunted, electricity is more or less optional as far as I'm concerned.

Now think for a moment if you will: What would you do if you found out something like this already existed? I know i would want to visit it, possibly join in on the fun, and definitly donate what I can to keep it going for future generations. Not to mention tell everyone I knew.

I don't know when this will happen, but I do know it has to happen. What I ask is for others to build interest, do some research for yourselves, and show how resolved you are at making this happen. I would like to set a feasable goal of starting up in the next 5 years- assuming of course we make it past 2012...

Trip and I think Australia is a viable option...

most definately somewhere in the tropics though rainforesty cause most other places get fire bans for most if not all of the year. secondly rainforest doesnt have those tricky "Australian Squirells" to chase you around the place

Those things can kill you!!! They're all territorial and drop out of trees with their razor sharp claws! All I think they are good for is a fur coat! And the flippin possums! Thanks that brought them to NZ, many a sleepless night have I had BC of those evil bastards. In the states the different but same possums are just as sinister but they do it quietly!

Possums i can understand they are evil little bastards particularly when they get into your warehouse and piss and all over your nice clean show room.

@ Dan this idea has got the creative juices flowing. going to invest some time into researching the possibilities. Will post up the info as it comes to hand. I am with you i think it is feasible and a brilliant idea

Well, with my school about to $*%& me over, I think I'll definately be ready in 2 years (just have to finish paying off my school loans *rolls eyes*.

No the evil Koala thingys too!

I have been looking at Alaska, it's not so bad actually, massive resources. I have found a way around the whole immigration thingy in Australia and the US.

See with Alaska I would be more scared of running into Sarah Palin than running into a koala in Australia. All jokes aside alaska sounds great 50 - 60k for 20 plus acres. My grandparents have an acre and they have had in the past chickens several fruit trees herb gardens and plenty of room left for 15-20 grandkids to ride bikes and play around as well so over 20 acres there should be plenty of room to set up a sustainable community for a group of spinners

I thought of the tropics as well but the idea of poisonous... well poisonous everything really just doesn't sit well with me. Speaking of injurious stuff, we should really try and find an emt. Or someone with basic knowlege that can fix common stuff, breaks and the sort.
If i bring up poisonous stuff of the tropics i may as well bring up the bad points of alaska as well- bears. granted they arent the man eating evil ones from yellow stone, but they're still bears. The way i see it, if the eskimos can make it out there so can we.


interesting side thought- why make this the only commune? Several around the world would be amazing- and ascilith can travel amonst them all with his monk entourage... hmmmm monk as an adjective = monkey?

I'd be all for it, but not in Alaska. I have no doubts it could be done there, but I have other reasons for avoiding it. Make it somewhere a little more south and I'm in.

You know Colorado still has the homestead thing too? Make improvements and/or show profit off the land and in a few years it's yours. I've spent weeks in Colorado and never left the mountains, would be much easier to be self sufficient there.

And as for tropics, poisonous everything is not that serious really. You just have to learn how to be a part of a new environment. I'd say El Salvador if going the more tropical route.

Colorado is extra good because it's a quick drive to burning man


also in Alaska, we'd need a huge studio for when its too cold to spin outsdie

@Jared: Colorado sounds pretty cool- i'll check into the homestead plots available

Good luck finding any info on it. Last I heard of it was several years ago so I won't be an help at all I just know there was a guy I met who was trying to get his setup, was having problems finding profitable land though. He was wanting to do a little mining and there was just no good mining land left.

ok colorado's nice but expensive. couldn't find anything on homestead properties.
i'm currently working on a charter to outline some basics on how this all can be operated- thanks again for all the help and advise refuge

right now it looks like a feasable plan could be to set up a primary commune in austrailia and a secondary, smaller one in alaska.

Austrailia, sounds good. What is the immigration process like to there?

here is a link to the immigration dept web site http://www.immi.gov.au/ hope that helps

*keeps mouth shut*

although there is another idea, we could start a fire commune on an abandoned couple of little islands off the east coast of Australia somewhere in the tasman sea:p

YES. however one negative thought that comes to mind is why were they abandoned? most uninhabited places are uninhabitable... but of course an expedition could answer that question real quick

nah thats just refuge and i taking the piss out of each others countries

OYE!

yea he just told me. way to get my hopes up...

Trip: Learn how to say things properly.....

Dan: Watch your bill fold around Trip....

in other news. They need to invent teleporters.

Then we could have a commune anywhere!

/dream

I know a great place we could send all the offenders!

i think i know where this ones going...

i thuohgt i was syanig tinhgs poreplry

and whats a bill fold. is it this *holds up Dans wad of cash*

hey! where'd you get that?! thievery is not allowed- its stated in the charter.

touche bud i got nothing for that

I seriously doubt that! Is that Da.... I mean.... our beer money?

ok, gettin off topic here- anyone got further ideas on job classifications. so far i got building, hunting/gathering, medical, clothing, and farming. I know eath of those are likly to have subsets of their own but any other broad ideas?

o. and i'd still like my "bill fold" back

thats what we all got sent to australia for sorry i am trying to reform my convict ways.

and to get back on topic we also need cooks

Just to be masogynistic before bed....

Cooking, cleaning, making me a sammich.... hmmm....

Sexing, entertaining, rallying.... uhh....

Nah, I think your list is fine, I was going to start adding things, but they are just subsets.

Though I guess someone familiar with the "codes" in the place where the commune would be, depending on what is installed.
ex. Building/zoning, electrical, plumbing, etc etc. As an ex-carpenter I know some places can be sticklers for small details.

mmm, cooks. and decent ones preferably.

I would love to see what some of these hippy fuqs would cook up. I cannot get all my nutrition from cannabis stew! I'll cook food for me and my own.

You're also going to need some sort of spiritual leader, if this is be a self sufficient, which usually means low tech living off the land, then a druid or shaman preferably.

I'm a farmers son, so growing crops or caring for animals (also a vet) would help I suppose. I also make lethal homebrew

I used to be a cab driver, so I'm really good at listening and helping people with their problems.... ^_^ (just usually not my own, but only because I feel like talking to myself makes me crazier than I already am! ^_^ )

Mesunderlay, how many diverse jobs have you had?

I have been a postman, gardener, caterer, bar tender, examiner, waiter and caretaker(Janitor)!

Don't forget a physicist. You can't survive without one

I've worked in a gas station, fast food, deli, convenience store, movie theater, factory, carpentry/construction, math/english tutor, electrical supply store, cab driver, retail store (sales)... hmm... I THINK that was about it....

I did also used to help clean down the mats at my former martial arts school for free lessons.

If I think of anything else, I'll let you know ^_^

See just with the last three posts we have nearly all bases covered! ^_^

one that is close to discovering perpetual energy creation hopefully that way we would never run out of power. Or a teleporter then we could just port ourselves to HoP HQ to resupply

I um... I have had, for some time now, an idea for a perpetual energy machine, though it would require some energy to begin it....

My problem is I'm not a machinist or electrician so I wouldn't know how to go about wiring it.

I think it would work, if I could find someone to make what's in my head a reality.

I would like to say, I think it is possible to create something that will perpetually create energy, though I do NOT think that it will ever be ONE device but a series of interconnected devices working together.
Bam!
Where's Tesla when I need him?

Very nice. Wow, i leave for like 2 days and this thread has grown exponentially. Now let's try to take this for what we have for sure. what would be the most logical place to do this for sure? We culd vote on whatever seems most popular. Cuz where will greatly affect our plans. Several ideas were thrown out but nothing was rly agreed upon from what I could see.

This whole thing has been a huge work in progress outside of this forum. I think the where will come after how is worked out. If where becomes an option for debate, sometimes you take what you can get and make do with what you got.

Yeah, that's probably true.

Random things A) I love work, like... manual labor. B) I love to learn new things so.... plumbing maybe? Wind powered generator design? Who knows.

Question: Do we want to be self sufficient and non profit, or do we want to pursue performance, design, and produce sales as a profitable endeavor?

So what's the latest new? This just kinda died off, has it been given up on for the time?

Personally, the past 2 or 3 weeks have been filled with finals and juggling festivals, so... yeah.

bloody hippies

WHERE! Quick, hide the patchouli and cannabis!

I don't usually burn patchouli. I prefer Nag Champa or Earth Goddess.

Haha I'm thinking of joining the cirque du soleil after college (one of the traveling groups) so thatd be a good way to travel and still spread knowledge and yet be back for supplying and for saying ello frequently enough

I know what you like to burn!

I'm still very interested in this, (along with teaching, cooking, farming and continuing to learn new and interesting things), and I would like to think it is all possible, and can be done at the same time in the same place.

Oh, and lighting things on fire, assorted things, for performance or otherwise. ^_^

It's on the back burner ATM. I'm sure there will be some brainstorming going on at the end of June. Right Dan?

I've been looking at land. It's very dear, unless you are in South America or some other nameless far flung continent.

What'a happening at the end of June?

It's when a lot of us will be in one spot in the real world.

Well, I figured that, I meant, literally, why? Is it just an annual HoP get together, is it a fest of some sort? lol

I don't want to pry if it's private, I was just wondering.

haha I hope I can get to that. Sounds fun. But that would be a good place to brainstorm

I thought you were going to Florida Ascilith.

I am, parents r paying tho. Family vacation.

Be like one of those celebrity fucks and buy an island somewhere, obviously this task wouldn't be given to Dan alone, I think purchasing a small island (probably anywhere from 6 to 10 times the size of any available plots of land at nearly half the cost) is entirely doable by a group of people

Also, after some research I found there are unused military bunkers in mountains, literally the size of entire cities for sale

That would make it a lot easier to actually make money and pay off buying something like that AND when the nukes fall, we can start a new race of progressively minded, artistically and spiritually centered self sufficient people and end human on human trouble

Or maybe I am just excited....lol

It's not on Dan alone. It just takes time and involvement at a greater level. But an island does sound cool.

I like the bunker idea too though It sounds rly cool.

I hear Dan and some other guy are bad mouthing me on Dirtbag's FB.

My dad is actually the one that told me about the bunkers, they are ranging in the millions after repairs, the military doesn't tend to abandon something unless it's practically useless lol but I just thought it was cool because they are literally underground cities

Put it in a bunker and I'm out. I need fresh air and sunlight, inside as well.

I think we might actually have an easier time making this happen in another country, I would count US out totally. Look into places that have a less developed civilization. Somewhere that the barter system is still alive and well, and currency isn't required.

Most times in areas like that, markets and hand made goods are also the norm. We could setup relatively cheap, possibly produce and sell extra crops, and also have some of our more crafty people setting up shop sometimes in the markets. In a large market environment you could really sell anything you wanted too, jewelry, clothing, furniture, sky is the limit.

Nicaragua and El Salvador might be good places to look into.

Little bit of info on El Salvador, I've looked into it before and been considering moving here anyway. If things don't start going a little smoother for me here soon I probably will move thre next year.

http://www.escapeartist.com/efam/47/ElSalvador_Living.html

Here's some of the important bits if you don't want to read it all:

inb4 small islands

There are literally thousand upon thousands of uninhabited islands

All things considered, some of those prices are pretty good.

Yeah, I looked at a few few of them, and if I had the cash I would say most of them were worth the price.

Wow, I guess I've been away for too long- I like both the island idea and the el salvador idea but am leaning more towards the el salvador prospect. Mainly because island madness. I lived in Hawaii for a little bit and even with all the beauty and people around you can get a little stir crazy. If it was solely owned by us I would imagine an island would drive me even more crazy- no offense intended.
I, like Meshunderlay, have been having some busy weeks- Right not it looks like I may be moving to a little spot of workable land (about 11 acres) by the end of the year. While this isn't near the size I'm looking for when the time comes for a commune I thought I may be able to work it into some sort of stop for wayward travelers as a sort of church of poi where you could come and spin in the woods, or mess around with crops and cattle for a little bit and be on your way. Initially I'll be the only permanent resident but there's room for expansion. I go work on the land to get it ready for the move-in every monday- if your wanting to check it out or maybe get your hands dirty and your in texoma area let me know

Hell Yea! Texoma!

I don't think an island would bother me too much other than it's not really convenient.

I have decided to go on to El Salvador though, so even if the commune doesn't happen there, I will be there by next October. Probably won't be much but it will always be open to those who want to escape for a while.

Escribir en Espanol.

Dan, I think your current idea is perfect, mainly as a kind of practice for the real thing, test the waters before jumping in head first eh?

I really can't take your posts seriously with that avatar, Dirtbag. It really doesn't fit the tone of your posts.

The name doesn't help much either, but hey to each their own I suppose.
But I do thank you for the vote of confidence, does this mean you want to help with some of the good ol' fasioned manual labor =)

I think I'd honestly be more of a frequent visitor than a resident but I'll gladly help you in any way that I can

@dirtbag: ok we'll talk about it more on Wednesday

This sounds amazing When this is up and running, I'll be both amazed and really happy.

Yes Dan, when will this be up and running?

Cool thing Dan

See you there

Hopefully by this winter- at the latest next Summer =)

Will you be out there on the 14th? I can come down and help you with your clearing and fence stuff.

i sooo wish i wasnt on the other side of the world and able to have more input (other than continuously dreaming of how awesome it would be) and able to help

I've literally been wishing for a place like this and slowly planning it out since I started spinning

Dan, I love you man!

Too bad you don't work on Caterpillar trucks. It seems that Australia has the only mechanics for them. So, they employ them with ridiculous salaries and they take over the pubs of Gainesville, TX every Friday night.

HEHE now you know how Aussies feel

I didn't tell you this but, it's secretly an invasion.

@refuge: Yessir; I'll actually be there quite often between the 13th and the 24th. We're having a vacation time at my work =)

@trip: The idea of having something over in your neck of the woods isn't anywhere near dead, and I still want to go to Alaska if for nothing else than to camp out for a while and spin in the woods.

@RC I've been saying that for years but i just get laughed off as a conspiracy theorist now i have proof! hehe

@Dan yeah heavily researching the possibilities of one over here. Am also in the process of saving for a visit to meet you all

Hey dan message me on fb with details of what we talked about on wednesay night

That sounds sinister! I'm not sure I like the Ian/Dan alliance.

Who's Ian?

Opps! Sorry Ian. I meant to say Dirtbag. I forgot it was improper to use real names on HoP.

Do you forgive me Ian.... I mean.... Dirtbag?

hahahaha

@trip, nice, you should try and make it out for the next full moon gathering; There's talk of making it a yearly or twice a year (bilateral?) event.

Lol I don't care if you use my real name

I just can't talk badly about myself on someone else's facebook now lol

... you are an interesting person Dirtbag it seems

interesting in a good way?

yup

He's a dirtbag!

It's true! lol

I chose the name because I thought it would be ironic lol

Now I actually wish I could change it but I like my pretty discount when buying from the shop lol

a teenage dirtbag baby like you (*chorus sings*ohh oohh)

Who else votes dirtbag changes his name back to dirtbag? say I =)

I!!!
[ed]And soopa quickly...;p

I have no idea who this dirtbag cat is but he should definitely change his name

And I thought agreement to something was supposed to be "aye"?

only in queensland aye

Oic

bump... that is all

I think that a commune is a great idea. I am aware i've tuned in a little late but i haven't been on here in months. Have you guys considered new zealand? Australian citizens don't need a visa to stay in new zealand and there is plenty of beautiful open space there. I've decided that one of my life goals is to make this idea a reality, even if its not for quite a few years... To raise funds for our little commune we could always put on shows throughout the area. considering the variety of talents we will have I think it would be quite easy to put on a show. Perhaps you could also just find someone with a property already. Or even try and contact someone with an island already and try and negotiate the use of one side of the island. One last thing, maybe you could offer the commune for twirlers as a holiday like place. pay a small fee to stay for a month or so, the only trouble would be making sure randoms who have never seen poi before don't just rock up to see the show. Ok i think I'm done. thats my 2 cents worth. ^^

I reallt should have put some sort of spacing in there... that bulk text is hard to read. sorry guys.

Just found out for the americans. there are several islands for sale just off belize for about half a mil. not bad considering i'de be lukcy to get a house for under a mil anywhere close to melbourne

Trip has reservations about NZ. Wairarpa seems like a great place somewhere tucked in the Rimutakas, or just about anywhere on the South Island.

Belize is already in the works

Going down to visit after the winter to check things out. An island may not be ideal, tropical depressions and hurricanes tend to slam the southern coasts of NA often.

I'm not certain what Dan has on his plate but it doesn't seem as if he is pursuing this idea ATM.

Got plans in the works to purchase a small complex on Lake Atitlan. 6 buildings, power and water, palapa in the courtyard.

I'll know more about it in a few months.

This is the lake, Lago de Atitlan. It's about 1/4 mile down the road from the property.

Reservations re NZ now gone. Keeping an open mind to all possibilities! Amazing what a bit of research does to opinions dont you think?

You could come to Belize with us or run off to dirty Guatamala with Jared

more research required i think

Quit being a slacker and get to it!

I've been researching for months, just pack your , we leave in October

Atitlan is in a caldera. It's over 5 square miles, and the bottom has not be fully explored but it is over 1000 feet deep.

Hey everyone...

This is my first post, so first of all - hi, happy to be here
I'll get to the introduction thread later, this one currently occupies all of my attention, fickle as it may be...

It seems that I live far far away from all of you, so i guess that for now my contribution can only be in the form of random ideas.

@JaredW: Atitlan looks gorgeous...

This is really a colossal undertaking, so I think some transitional solutions are worth considering.. for example, you/we could try organizing a get-together, lasting about a month or two, in the style of the Rainbow Gatherings ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow_Gathering ). Such a gathering could happen on someone's front lawn (would have to be a big lawn tho), and would give you some insight into the problems you would be facing if this is to become a permanent thing.

Another option is joining an existing community, at least temporarily, with the objective to learn self sufficiency.
I'm pretty sure such a community wouldn't be too hard to find, provided the group of newcomers is relatively small and has something to add to the whole.

A third option is derived from the first - making the community a nomadic one, moving around friends' front lawns... this one is pretty sketchy, no self sufficiency, and would have to be pretty localized, not to mention the friends would have to like the idea as well. Not really a doable thing once i stop to think of it, but i'm stating it anyway.

http://www.simondale.net/house/
This guy in Wales built a house in Wales for him and his family. It cost him about 3000 pounds, and the work was completed in 4 months, using only himself, friends and passersby for the manual labour. More details in the link above, let me just say that the house is totally amazing IMO, and living in a Lord of The Rings/Shire settlement is just what i would like:). Anyway, this should cut down on the costs significantly, and I think it is possible to learn how he did it from someone, although I can't remember where.

There is a sort-of-commune close to where I live.. I haven't done any significant research yet, but as far as i understand it's a group of friends who decided to be self-sufficient, and accomplished this in a relatively short while. I've thought of going there myself, and asking them if i could learn from them in exchange for manual labour... not sure if I am going to do it, or if they would let me, but I imagine there are communities like this everywhere around the globe, not even including plain old farmers. I'm a city boy, so I really have no idea how to be self sufficient, but I would really like to learn....

I realize the primary problem is the money required to actually buy land, but i really can't help with that for now.. perhaps some kind of fund would be best.... i would donate to it as soon as i could:)

ok that's all i have for now, i'm sure i've forgotten some stuff, will add if i remember
This post is mostly the product of brainstorming, so i apologize if it's disorganized. I just saw this post, and it got me thinking so fast i couldn't contain my thoughts. The idea seems wonderful to me...

Hope this helps...

LOL you think of a way to raise 46k USD and you can have a place in Guatemala too!

Just not the one I'm looking at lol

If anybody is interested in Panama, a contractor I hired today has 7 acres with a house for sale.

<---holds Jared down and chokes him for holding out on the details of his adventures.

From what I hear, there are lots of plants on the panama property

I just found the piece of Belize I want and will start the process of buying it tomorrow! I intend to live down there and look for a larger plot of land for a farm before I jump in feet first. I will always be open for guest once my house is built and anyone, even FireTom , is welcome to come visit.

Now to get in 3 hours of sleep before I lose my job and cant afford it any more!

TV and couch are gone, new flowtoys on the way. Quit my job and got one just to pay the bills till the passport gets here.

I would love to be a part of this, even if it was just a visitor. It sounds perfect.

Where are you looking at in Belize Refuge? I spent 7 months on expedition out there, I love the place and would head back in a shot, got a lot of friends in and around San Ignacio.

The Humming Bird highway has some amazing plots off of it, and is an amazaing place.

Could be tempted to invest myself