BP oil spill

You're not helpless! Make the choice to drive a vehicle that uses alternative fuels or as Rougie suggested, ride a bike.



How this relates to what was said in the article, I have no idea. A misrepresentation. Profit is at the top of the list of every country's "values", if we are measuring them by corporate standards.



I'm not sure if you know FT, Yank is highly offensive to a lot of the people in the southern US.



85% of the US population is in the metropolitan areas. Over a quarter of a billion people, that could cut their unnecessary oil consumption in some way. I live in a rural area, and I am required to commute over 1000 miles week. I consume less than 5 gallons of diesel to do it, I KNOW it's possible to cut your fossil fuel consumption, no matter where you live.

I think we have wasted enough energy on the 'blame game'. A solution and way to repair this tragedy is the best we could hope for at the moment.

I have offered to sequester some of the reclaimed oil and tar from Louisianan in part of my pasture. I invite anyone to be part of the solution.(volunteer to spend your holiday picking up tar balls, encourage your hairstylists to send the clippings to the clean up, donate money... find just one way you can positively impact this situation, and do it!)

If we collect the facts as we go and learn from this, the mob should have someone to crucify and hopefully it can be prevented from EVER happening again.

RC, sweetness, I said "land" not population referring to square miles and even those metropolitan folks have to travel long distances if there is no work near them (all the people who take the train between Baltimore, Philly, and New York as one local example) will pass through non-metropolitan parts of land. What is your definition of metropolitan area? According to this list http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas Dover is a metropolitan area and I can tell you that it is not and everyone here commutes for the most part to do what they need to do. Many of these other small cities I can say the same for...

The available statistics do not include the differences between major metropolitan areas like LA, NYC, Philly, DC and small cities that do not have their resources (honestly less resources than major metropolitan suburbs) like Dover, Annapolis, Ann Arbor, Burlington, Lancaster, and similar sized places although they are listed the same just smaller. *doesn't like vague statistics in general*

You are 100% correct though and those small changes do count for a ton, I know I try even though I have to commute for everything. I was just trying to throw in a viewpoint accounting to the many people who have no choice on transportation on long, routine treks and to not discourage anyone who makes any small change to their routine.



Even the 15% (I'm pretty sure it's higher, but yay people who avoid the census LULZ [humor and lightening the mood is good I think] and the latest numbers aren't in yet) who don't live in those areas are a massive amount of people...

I couldn't agree more! Considering this is the first time something like this has happened ever I cannot imagine the challenge of trying to lessen the damage of this accident.

This is just the first time a drilling accident has caused a problem like this in the US. Similar accidents have happened elsewhere but would never have made such an impact in the media.
I'd also guess that it (from my knowledge of other incidents) has not been the most damaging to life.

This eco / human disaster started in 2006 after a drilling accident and has never been stopped...

I didn't know there have been any other situations of off shore drilling in deep water that have a high probability to spread through ocean currants spreading rampantly, do tell...

My fear of how this one is different related to what will happen (whether they can plug the leak or not) than anything I have heard of. Even with the amount currently when it spreads to major water ways and is picked up by the ocean currents it will spread much further than just the east coast of America, according to the map of currents it's next stop would carry over to Europe and the open Atlantic. So far wash ups have been spotted as far away as Pensicola, FL which is alarming. Hurricane season is in week one and every year the Gulf Of Mexico gets slammed with some big ones, hopefully some remedy will come about before any of those storms make an impact.

It doesn't make other accidents any less severe in any way, but has a rig out in deep water spewed oil for almost 2 months non-stop and how did they fix it in other circumstances? According to the news fixing this thing is one experiment after another.

Here is one possibility, not a projection or forecast:


I hope this doesn't happen, but if does effect the Delmarva Peninsula like you can see in the video I will go help because I can afford to help locally.

I know it's not deep water, but there was this one

I'm not arguing with you and if circumstances allow you to ride a bike and you own one that is wonderful, there aren't many where I can see it being practical "if you must be somewhere" or "you must be presentable", the elements are not always friendly. I don't like these kinds of judgments and whatever people are trying to do that is helpful and doesn't make them miserable I feel should not be discouraged. I don't know the situation of the people you know, but I know right now with 90 degree weather I can hardly take out the trash let alone ride a bike during peak hours of the day and when there was 3 ft snow on the ground almost all winter it was even more difficult. I don't know an adult who isn't a cyclist who even owns a bike...

I'm just saying while that might be a reasonable answer to some, to others not so much and there is nothing wrong with that and the good they do is no better than anyone else's efforts same or different. You know what I mean.

/end off topic discussion

Stout, I hope it doesn't take 10 months to fix this like that one. I'm not sure of how much more complicated of a situation this is on all levels, but I hope the fact the fix method they got to work in that part of the gulf (hasn't worked here on their attempt) isn't an indication it'll take that long to stop the leak. I am astonished that with such an incident in hindsight a plan of action was in place before going into deeper, riskier waters.

Those circumstances you described therefore clearly not coming under "trips they could easily use another mode of transport for"

I wanna come live where it's 65 degrees year round, mostly sunny, and clothes don't wrinkle (no sweat or B.O. either!). You know what I mean, can we try to not have a pissing contest for once? And look at all people as being different with different needs? I mean it Rougie (which I never called you because I hate when people give me an "ie" nickname from my real name BTW, but you prefer it which is good where I'm a one syllable kinda girl) even though you're the polar opposite of me it doesn't need to predict an imminent run around on semantics.

*extends hand for a shake*

Didn't you want to move to Texas?

@ RC: that's all you can extract from my posts?

The point is that BP is owned 50% by American institutions and individuals... Whilst many of the media report that BP is "a London based company" - indicating that (INVADE BRITAIN) the problem is not as much home made as foreign.

I do ride a motorcycle and as such get by far better mileage/ gallon, do have a trailer (tiny to American standards) for my stuff, for which I rent a vehicle to tow if I must. Whenever possible I resort to trains, rather than airplanes. But there still is a lot of room for improvement.

"Corporate Standards" exactly is the way of measuring which got us into this mess in the first place. Not indicating a culture clash here, but I would love to see "ethics" move back into the corporate world, before applying their standards as "ultima ratio"...

You lost the (civil) war... get over it.

@ EoN: Rouge now repeatedly said that riding a bicycle seems not an option where you live... ever heard of "j'ecxuse - j'accuse"?



Give'em their attitude, how 'bout that?

Fact of the matter is that we all do depend to some extent on fossil fuels (ever tried to light up your poi with olive oil )... we are not helpless and there is a lot we can do.

As to solutions:

In Germany (at least) fruit and veggies in the supermarket are marked for their origins. I choose German or European origins. As Americans you should choose American - or stuff grown in your state. Sorry - it might mean that it's not a Mango or Papaya every day...

Turn off electricity every time you don't use it. Also energy saving bulbs DO consume energy.

Talk about car pools, public transport with your friends and neighbors, talk about the (objective) facts and pull back the response-ability from "our government!!!" back into your area at home. Sorry - it might mean you loose some sympathy points...

Live what you preach and choose alternative transportation whenever possible... downsize your vehicle - if possible - and talk to your friends and relatives about it, consider and suggest hybrid or electric vehicles... Sorry, have them reconsider their SUV or RV... dare

MAYBE (in areas with snowfall for winter) even consider to buy another vehicle... to drive a light and low consumer in summertime and keep the other one for winter. Or to use the small one for shopping 50miles away and getting to work - and the other one for your long distance travels, tough jobs.

This is as much a time for self inflicted changes and actions as it is a time for changing attitudes and spreading the word.

Make it as if "it's cool to go green"... show encouragement for the new way - and disapproval of the usual drag.

Ah - preachertell again Stop being ridiculous, Tom...

likewise

Hellz yeah! In an air conditioned home which will be provided... But I have visited in the past and let me tell you I'll take dry heat over humid heat any day! You can at least breathe and not feel like you're suffocating in dry heat.



Um, FireTom, that's RC's quote not mine....

And you missed my point about bikes because it isn't about me (I don't own one and pretty sure I've forgotten how to ride one as I haven't touched one since I was like 12) or where I live, it's why people tend to need to leave their home to begin with and what condition they need to be in where they're going. That's why I made a joke and dropped it. LOL

You know I didn't want to bring this up, but you do realize we're one solar flare or gamma burst away from being wiped of the face of the universe and as evolution has taught us there is a vibrant age and extinction for several classes of lifeforms on that scale?

I'm not saying don't try to be nice to the planet as I try in many ways, but we only live once and you cannot take a U-haul behind you. I don't believe as humans we have a "purpose" and life is essentially meaningless until we place our own values on it, I think changing might make conditions more comfortable but in no way is going to change the inevitable fact that we all will live, we all must die, and all species will at some point go extinct and new ones will evolve. The earth itself could be blown to bits by many cosmic forces while we're on it or not at any second.

Just trying to be realistic, I don't believe in adding to problems that affect others, but there's a point to wake up and smell the coffee that we none will live forever as individuals, a species, or a planet. I'm not going to preach to people or try to make something cool because it's annoying and insulting, but when people see the impacts of their actions themselves and reflect on the personal implications they will react in a manner they're capable of and do something.

Life is a huge gray scale with very few absolutes, nothing you posted can change the situation of what occurred and if you want ethics in the corporate world you have to go do it yourself or blow a lot of hot air and be ineffective. But you would have to change all those things you think are wonderful to be accepted by the corporate world and clean up well. Is it worth it to you to try or would you rather just rant about them?

Just another way of looking at the puzzle and I endorse/encourage nothing in particular, another angle to the conundrum of samsara and transient phenomena.



When will people learn that Capitalism IS NOT SUSTAINABLE???

Like I said before in my last post, my friends and I are having parties/events where people buy tickets and all of the proceeds go to two organizations that we've found who are helping with clean up and rescuing the animals caught in the oil spill. Join Pirates For The Gulf on Facebook. That's one of the events we're having. We're trying to find spinners to perform at the event right now. Even though this disaster is horrible, we can try to do something positive. Complaining never got anyone anywhere. Parties are an awesome and fun way to get people involved and to help out.

A friend of mine is doing something similar, but for a different cause with animal rescue and she has had a very positive response. I'm in your area, send me a PM or add me to the facepage with the details and I'll see what I can do. I'm supporting my other friend's event in VA, but it's not until September. I look up the group/event page today.

Are you waiting for a spin game? Keep waiting...



BP's stats, which you posted, do not back up this claim.



Seriously! I am not sure where to begin spin doctor Tom. Which media? I recall you yourself being guilty of doing this very thing because it played to your argument.(ah humm, The Concord incident, which was total rubbish). This 39% are indeed, American people and institutions, "which again are ordinary people, who ask banks to invest their money in funds..."

As far as I can tell, the issue isn't as much about BP, Transocean, or Halliburton and their standards, as much as it is offshore drilling. You did after all post 'BP oil spill', placating the mass media's forgone point of view about where to lay blame. I might suggest a title change to further your argument about introspection.



You will find no argument from anyone here, unless you try to make one out of thin air.



Yank, is a colonial term, the colonist played 'Yankee Doodle Dandy' to the surrendering crown soldiers. The colonist came to adopt the playful name. Those whom were not colonist, never viewed themselves as such, and find the name as ridiculous as it was intended. It has little to do with the civil war. But I don't blame you for not having the sophistication to understand that.

Germany lost WW2, should it be fair to call all Germans Nazis applying this same standard? I feel the same about the term Pom. I don't feel that all people in the UK agree with Peoples(or Prisoners, have your pick) Of, Her Majesty.



Also agreed, It's exactly the same in North America, and of course, choosing US or North American produce first is a logical step, just as in Germany choosing German or European produce first is.

EoN is right. That was my quote and it had far higher context than you have taken it for. Crucify and mob(mentality) are in the deepest of sarcasm.

Is that enough extraction? Is the point of this post, what we should know about BP? Is it meant to evolve in so many contradictory ways? Are we trying to address the obtuse issues that brought us to this disaster? Is it to be more conscience about how our actions lead corporations to violate the environment in our names? And so on.....

Frost, it's a beautiful and effective thing your friends and you are doing. You should post a link to make it easier. Can anyone say collaboration? The wonderful RL MOD might be able to help draw attention to your cause.



Similar to my view. I think action is far more important than words, especially, when those words are stating the obvious.

Frost Dreamer and RC: just because I forgot to mention it previously - wow, good on ya for personal effort to contribute on a larger scale, helping to clean the mess up and getting people involved. Great stuff Chapeau.

EoN: If that's the case, grant me pardon for mis-quotation :thanks:

But frankly: which one of the two are you now up to? "We only live once and the planet is going to blow up and we're all going to be extinct anyway" or "be nice to the planet and try to leave a better future for our kids"? I'm often trying to balance the two myself - only trying to find out where you pivot.

PS: RC - this is boring (at least for me) as it is going again into that tit-for-tat-who's-the-smartass-now situation. Have it your own way then. Actually - if Germany would have won the war you'd use "Nazi" as a honorable compliment, not an insult - so spare me the bickering please. I introduce myself to Dutch people as "a Muff" and to Anglos as "a Kraut" - makes things easier not to identify yourself with a heritage you never earned.

As for the rest: I tried to emphasize that BP is owned by almost as many people and institutions originating in the US as in the UK... (according to the BP website) - thanks for making me aware that I'm horribly bad in manipulating public opinion by faking statistics. Of course - genius - these numbers still don't say anything about how many shares are owned by nationality - which would be the really interesting part

[ed] but if I would have offended you - as a southerner - then I honestly ask your pardon too.

Well FireTom, personally I'd put myself on the lower impact side of moderate in terms of sustainability. I lead a waste not, want not existence and conserve for financial reasons more so than ecological reasons. It just happens that being frugal with money and the essentials you need money for also lessens the impact on nature and brings a better future for starting a family in more ways than one.

I have a small car with good gas mileage/low emissions to do the essentials I fill up a maximum of twice a month (unlike the old guzzler may she rest in peace). Every time I use my car I accomplish all I can on the trip to and from the goal destination, never drive in foul weather, keep up with simple maintenance to optimize safety & economy, fill up the tank during the coolest part of the evening to prevent evaporation before sealing the cap.

I'd also rank myself as moderate on the scale because I do live in an apartment with utilities since it's all I can afford and manage with my lifestyle/priorities (not to mention having to move every few years) LOL, but without sacrificing comfort I eat mainly products grown and manufactured in a 100 mile radius, always take reusable bags shopping, attempt to produce minimal waste, and be conservative on utility use but not to save the planet. Instead I do these things to cut down on cost, clutter, to be healthy, and comfortable. No big sacrifices, but the choices lessen the carbon footprint in the big scheme of things and it's sensible and feels good in more ways than one.

Being responsible and considerate to our surroundings is honestly the path of least resistance I've learned from experience. If you slack off (littering, not handling your business, etc.) and the cycle includes others refusing to pick up the slack due to the same attitude it only comes back to hurt you, I prefer to nip things in the bud from the get-go and avoid the trouble that comes from shortcuts. I'm not going to make myself a slave to adhering to any impossible goal or idealistic lifestyle, nor will I diminish wonderful experiences fulfilled in a reasonable manner, but common sense (a trait not so common anymore) I'm a firm believer in and is how I choose to live.

So I'm moderate and conscientious for my own set of priorities that benefit myself economically and in terms of comfort, then after that my surroundings benefit a little by having less of a toll taken. I see nothing wrong with being sensible in the balance, the lengths some go I don't consider healthy or enjoyable for myself and what I see most others do makes me appear the "environmental" type locally and amongst my peers. Hope that's a good explanation.:)

*a touch off topic, but I tend to try to answer questions to the best of my ability*