BP oil spill

FT it's boring for everyone... But you persist on the same path again and again. Do not make personally bias statements in a public forum if you are not prepared to be challenged for them.

There is such a thing as an opinion other than your own. I have every right to express the other side, if I please, and feel obligated to do so when I feel it should have voice, even if I don't agree. I would hardly call that tit for tat.

I have yet to even hear mention of blaming a 'London based company'. No one I have talked thinks one thing has to do with the other. Being London based is so irrelevant that it hasn't even been mentioned on any of the US nightly news. Where this overly presumptuous 'invade Britain' thingy of yours came from I do not know.

A heritage you have never earned, indeed!

I am willing to concede when you are.

Moving on then?

I think that the percentages do sum up the shares owned by nationality.

I don't think targeting BP is ethical, even if they have acted unethically. In the end, taking down BP does more harm than good, but they, along with everyone else involved, should be made example of to deter corporations from thinking they can sidestep the values, regulations and laws of our societies.

As far as taking responsibility for this, I feel little responsibility. It isn't a case of buyer beware, this may kill everything in the ocean.

I purchase petrol expecting that it is done as safely as possible to the environment and not at the expense to livelihoods or the future. I would rather think, it happened and, that, is the reality. My choices are, I could complain or be a proactive part of the solution, regardless, of how much fossil fuel I do or don't rely on. This oil spill will move into the Atlantic and on to Europe soon. Whom will we blame then?

I will forecast the future, if anyone likes, and I believe my prediction will be more accurate than a ruling magistrate in a criminal case.

We have every right to expect our governments to act on this matter. We rely on them to keep us safe and protect our environment. In this case, the US agency responsible for enforcing the standards set out by law, took BP at it's word. They should not have and they too should shoulder some of the blame.

Truth, RC speaks the truth.....

RC: So we're all the same legible to voice my opinion? Did you ever find me telling you to shut up? (at least not at times when you agreed with what I said, right?) However: where were you when I got called a Nazi? Double standards it is? [/ironic]



Dispersal of the oil could take years (at least they might give the fishermen a chance to earn some $$$ during fishing ban)

Some ideas to clean up the spill whilst

BP bosses family gets police protection...

I'm kind of split on the latter as I personally do support holding CEO's responsible for the damages resulting from companies operation - hence not physically. Declaring a witch hunt has still to be proven productive.



And you know what's so sad in all this? That - while we feel and display so much dissent for no other reason than grudges - we oversee the core issues and retard to being like little children closing their ears to the voices of reason.

I too expect governments to control and regulate companies, keeping citizens safe... but I would expect companies to do that in the first place. I'm certain that if BP was going down amidst all this it could set some decisive marker in the history of corporate consciousness.

I'm not sure why you would expect this from an individual, let alone a company with a bottom line, shareholders to appease, employees to oversee and pay, pensions and legally binding contracts to honor, taxes to pay, their own bills for rent, property, equipment, contracting...

The list goes on and on of course like all corporate responsibilities...

And you expect safety, ethics, and higher standards to move up on the priority list after a global financial crisis and during an American recression where bailouts and tax cuts are being tossed to those who help with the unemployment problem or were thought to be "too big to fail" and then failed???

I'm astonished your line of thought moves in that direction, especially before this ever happened (which was an accident no one could've predicted) it seems to make sense in a failing economy for a wealthy corporation to take advantages of perks by going "full steam ahead, provide employment" to tread water since demand for gas (people are driving less and having enough repossessions/foreclosures these days, along with job loss) has dropped, profits in general have dropped, stock value has dropped, but they still have to pay out their corporate bills including taxes...



Wouldn't you try to lessen your costs complying with criteria to benefit from tax breaks and stimulus money or driving up your profits and bottom line with your own strategies? BP has plenty of lobbyists so you know they have some tips on getting good with that type of program.

People do what they do because it benefits them, corporations do the same thing but it's more complicated and the stakes of "sink or swim" are far higher. I don't know how it is at all logical to assume anyone isn't trying to max out their profit margin (net worth has become self worth, lets just be honest) or how the first line of thought wouldn't be about how everything action and reaction would/could benefit them.

Let's just be honest that no one does anything without it serving their own purposes or without getting some kick back that makes what they do worthwhile in some way.

FireTom and EoN in contentious debate shocker.

Who'd have thought

Lulz, Durbs, that's a good one.

Just giving ye ol' 3 lbs muscle a little activity, no worries hon!

EpitomeOfNovice, here's the link for the Facebook group http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=103193559729807#!/group.php?gid=130653010279954. If anyone else wants to join, please feel free to.

With the amount of exercise it gets, I doubt it only weighs 3lbs

felt free

EoN: BP first quarter 2010 results are 5 BILLION $ (compared to 4th quarter 2009 that's a 135% increase!) ... not exactly a dwindling company wrenched from the global financial meltdown you would call it, would you now?

Right - and shareholders to appease (who just lost 15% in market value of their shares), employees to oversee and pay (and let getting killed - like in the current and previous Texas refinery disaster), last but not least pension funds to crunch (who were now affected by the recent loss of share values as well)...



According to some news reports already the "Bush administration allowed safety precautions to be circumvented"



Wasn't G.W.Bush one of the oil slinger boys of Texas? Maybe the American public considers calling him on this one as well, instead of putting all the blame on Obama.

Now these "unnecessary costs" are going to have consequences beyond measure. This incident could teach big corporations a lesson, like: "Don't compromise on safety - it'll cost you ... a heck more in the end!" Thus no ethical motivators (as they seem not to belong in the corporate world (hardly seem to belong in the human realm)) - merely financial incentives.

They should not forget in the future that they live on the same planet and share the same responsibilities as the rest... AND shareholders as well as employees should watch that attitude more closely.

I dearly hope that it's going to break BP's neck. We were prepared to pay more for oil already and this would set an memorable precedence for the right people involved.

Durbs, it's quite amazing that we even argue on the same side of the fence, isn't it? That really proves the world to be grayscale not monochrome Any British Propositions from your side which you'd like to share with us then?

Meh not really, I don't really see the need to debate stuff on the interwebs.

I think it's totally wrong the CEOs family are being targetted by hate-mail and threats, which in turn is costing the UK tax-payer to fund the police protection.
He may be an idiot, but that's not his family's fault.

I also don't think BPs first quarter report is that relevant, their 2nd and 3rd quarter may be quite telling though.

Other than that, it was a disaster waiting to happen.

I never said they were dwindling, just that they'd take advantage of the situation and it would effect their strategies and outlook/disposition in the midst of this climate (as further statistics would possibly back the probability when compared to other series of events and a time line). There is no doubt that a time of strife for some is a booming opportunity for others.

That's a good hardy-har-har for ya!

I have so many opinions and extensive lines of thought on all the points you guys have made including those of you whom have contributed to the topic by pointing out this is not the first time something similar has occurred. I wrote a lengthy reply and then closed the window loosing it. So forgive me if I skip the exchanges FT and to the rest, forgive me skipping quotes to keep you up with the line of thought.

I have mixed feelings on when and where the government should be allowed to intervene or regulate certain aspects of the business world. Why do business where you are expected to follow safety standards at large costs when you can go to somewhere such as China(luckily not an oil rich country) and skip those things? I do believe that at present we have close to a happy medium but there is room for improvement.

Every alternative to oil presents its challenges and for the time being still requires development to be effective. Which leads me to believe, this is the unfortunate price we pay for living, but we can still learn from it.

A shift in the corporate paradigm is a lovely thought but unlikely without drastic measures being taken and harsh consequences enforced for deviation.

I would hope that every parent, caregiver and teacher in the world is now pointing their finger at this example of our carelessness with the planet, complacency to change in the face of eminent disaster, social irresponsibility and the failure of the leadership to safeguard the future in exchange for their own personal gain.

I would also hope that we can give them another example to look back at, how we did all we could to repair the damage, and how we responded to situation and climate that led to this event, but most of all, the measures we took to prevent them from experiencing the same fate.

*rubs eyes* this has been three consecutive posts without personal sentiments in a row... wow - I guess we're getting somewhere.

RC - couldn't agree more with what you said. Drilling oil happens largely outside China and personally I would suggest imposing heavy taxes for businesses that skip safety precautions. The message should be clear: "you don't keep a clean safety record - you gonna fry."

The problem with pointing fingers though is, that we're at both ends of it...

Durbs - I'm split over the issue. Whilst I don't condone violence or the threat of it, I feel that families should involve themselves more in the business and not just skim the benefits. That this again goes on tax-money proves how short sighted people act, when getting washed away with their thought patterns.

As much as i enjoying lurking in yet another HoP soapbox competition, which heaven forbid that some one who actually works in the primary resource sector might get involved.... how bout a side discussion... what about the guys working on the rig...

article

some assorted trains of thought - some of which are my own and others arent.....

- Sue? oh come on! thats why you get paid the big bucks to work on an oil rig! if you dont want the risk, work in a call centre and get paid accordingly

- i know id feel pretty crap about causing one of the largest made-made environmental disasters in history... most engineers who work on the rigs i know are decent guys who want to raise a family, and ironically for their profession, take there family camping in the rainforest/go fishing for holiday... but its interesting what can happen in the corporate engineering machine..

- theres lots of discussions about accountability. unfortunately engineering is never 100% foolproof. mistakes happen - and no matter how many safeguards will go into to place, and how obvious the mistake seem afterwards, you will never have a foolproof process.
How many time does windows work perfectly? unfortunately in the primary resourse sector, the oversights can turn into monumental cluster-f***s as BP have clearly demonstrated not just through the incident itself, but the appalling way they have dealt with the situation.

- my personal opinion for this specific scenario, is that we are dealing with one of the deepest ocean drilling rigs EVER - and they only have a double redundancy safety system (meaning there is a primary failsafe, then a manual backup if the first safety measure doesnt work). If i was designing something on such a massive scale, i would ensure a triple of quadruple redundancy safety system. hell ive design quad redundancy systems for chemical processes on the surface of the earth, let alone 18000ft under the ocean.

- anyway all were are hearing is the bp press machine and the media press machine. it would be interesting to talk to the guys on the ground.

- i had 2 other points, but im hungry and my fingers are sore, so need to make a laksa stat!

**disclaimer** this post was made while sitting on a plastic chair, no doubt refined from petroleum products.

Dentrass: Right that! The mind-boggle is that individuals in private life actually might be completely sweet people, yet in their profession might act devastating to society and environment. I personally did know people working in the slaughterhouse as butchers... they go home to be dearest fathers and excellent buddies. I met people working on rigs... they even have a nature conserving attitude...

- Sue: You don't want to get sued, run call centers not oil rigs.

- Accidents: If you're running a company with multi-billion dollar profits handling some of the most polluting substances on the planet... why don't you care for backup plans, before the crap hits the fan? You already do have safety devices installed BUT - as you already consider the fan being hit by crap and knowing that engineering is not 100% foolproof - why don't you care for scenarios in case they don't work?

Exactly: personally I'm not as much concerned that it happened at all. I'm grumpy because BP has not dun its homework, leading to death and devastation... that's not a AAA+ company in my eyes.

- unfortunately we rarely hear the people on the ground... not on this one and not in the Israeli piracy act. It's all opinions based on available informations. And the media is reporting news they can sell to people... One reason why I find "hatred" to be completely inappropriate.

............. Laksa? *drools on floor*

just another

go solar

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/10276652.stm

I hope you and everyone else applies the same thinking to the CEOs, Politicians, Lawyers, Shareholders, Investors, and separate what people have to do for a living from their individuality and parts of their lives and thoughts no one outside of themselves (even at times inside of themselves) we (they) will never know. A job is a way of making money, it is not a reflection of who a person is or their personal views on anything regardless of industry.

People are people.

Sign at a local BP station