BP oil spill

ok, so i work for an ethical firm, in an industry where there are some dodgy practices in other locations on the planet. does that make me the devil?

you get my drift. Life Cycle Analysis is great for revealing hypocracy.

@ Woodland Apple: not quite true. These studies (however applicable they are in this case) show that many - if not most - people would do the same... maybe through raising awareness and compassion we'll be able to come to a world full of "Schindler's and his kind (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Germans_who_resisted_Nazism). [/pipedream]

@ EoN: it's quite ... not my approach falling for marketing arguments. BUT in case that we will have to continue accepting highly pollutive industries in order to maintain our lifestyles... I choose... guess... another lifestyle. Because IF continuation of this lifestyle means that we loose the very foundation on which we live on, then it's quite pointless to continue cutting the tree we're sitting on. Wouldn't you think?

This is not armchair politics - this is about demanding that industries work clean (which they can, if they want/ have to)... "higher prices"... ? Maybe as much as "lower profit margins"?

We *cough* or those holding funds *cough* need to get more aware of what we spend our bucks on - and who works with this money.

Why now - if this thesis are universally human - people volunteer to clean up. Why did people go to Haiti and tried to help there? Why do people donate money to organizations - hoping to make a positive difference

To look good, to impress others, for their reputations, to gain power, to gain admiration, to play a part in controlling others, to make others indebted to them, for opportunities based on character to be offered, to push their products and innovations, free publicity...

Do I need to continue?

A friend of mine is doing something similar, but for a different cause with animal rescue and she has had a very positive response. I'm in your area, send me a PM or add me to the facepage with the details and I'll see what I can do. I'm supporting my other friend's event in VA, but it's not until September. I look up the group/event page today.

WA... so you say we're doomed as mankind is cursed by the innate evil...

Stanford Prison Experiment (as well as the Third Wave for that matter) are example of how to bring out the worst in man

You really want me to believe people do these things strictly for the good of others with no other perks or rewards?

Wow, I don't care whether someone thinks it'll get them into heaven quicker

will look good on a resume, or are trying to purify their own misdoings (I'll leave cult like behavior, control, networking, and financial gain out of this one)

it's still for selfish motives they are all different flavors of the same evil.

Epitome,

reading your posts you are right and yet so absolutely wrong at the same time.

Just out of curiosity, how far down the foodchain does this "you work in Extractive Industries, you are EVIL" thing go?

ONLY if you do not consume any of the products which we produce can you condemn us for providing the raw materials in the first place.

yep no disagreement there. Ive never encountered a policy in my firm that goes against my ethics. Its not as if we are like the eco-villians in captain planet you know. but then again, australia has some of the stricted industrial environmental standard (and repercussion for infringments) in the world. If i was working for a nigerian based oil firm on the other hand...

I am sick and tired of companies (or venues) who are "willing to sponsor (environmental) projects" (and use them as a marketing byproduct) to clean their slates. Which is why I rather declined offers of people for (ad)sponsors to the InJuCo.

IF ANYTHING - reduce the impact you already have. No need to fix anything, if you don't break it in the first place.

I don't buy into marketing ploys, but it's beneficial to look at the reality of the big picture. A few hundred thousand consumers boycotting or changing their ways can't make a dent when there are millions and millions of people who still provide companies with plenty of business knowingly or otherwise. If you have the ability to use a computer with internet access think about the long chain of events where if you did boycott intentionally you probably are still funding a huge mega corporations with ties to others. It's not just about fuel, but about manufacturing, utilities, transportation, maintenance and up keep where so many support business they don't even know about.

I can't really believe your lifestyle and levels of consumption are much different than my own if you have electricity, running water, mass manufactured goods or handmade goods made with mass manufactured equipment, if you buy groceries, if you travel...

The only people I would even listen to that argument from I have a low chance of ever meeting because they live in a tribal culture that hasn't been tainted by invasions, outreach efforts, or government barter programs. No matter how much we try, intentionally or not, we are at a state of human development where everyone plays a part in huge things without their knowledge. If the people had the power to over take the minority which are the wealthy business people and such don't you think we'd have incentive to utilize the power for our own benefit to put them in their place and even the playing field? Like without an accident or some horrid event to motivate us to take control of ourselves and who is truly controlling us?

If your answer is "Yes" why hasn't it worked and if your answer is "No" think about why...

As admirable as the intention of making change is, the reality of such change actually coming about and the realistic numbers and amount of deregulation required to make it at all probable I know is not going to happen in modern culture.

I hate capitalism, globalization, and regulation because it has stripped away the importance to the individual and has also made more hopeless struggles and catch 22s of the human condition that are all unnecessary and based on an "individual's" bright idea to come together and make a "productive society". Too bad so many way back when were easily conned, and now in modern times it's taught in such gentle polite terms very few realize they're doing wrong.

Funny huh?



If I had to count the fear factor downfalls of this approach I wouldn't come up with what half of those who put regulations into place would come up with. Regardless accidents will always happen and will never be appropriately planned for when entering into uncharted territory.

BTW I didn't make the armchair politics statement, just for the record.



This level of awareness would probably do more to piss people off and make them feel hopeless/care less and give up more so than it would produce positive change. It's all one big vicious cycle but so is life! Need oxygen to live, but it's a corrosive so therefore we die.

I'm not trying to argue, but really there's a balance to everything and even with the best of intentions terrible things happen... like wars... I'm not for a moment going to give any lifeform more credit or value than my own be it a human, animal, plant, planet, or molecule of air, it shouldn't be too hard to understand why even if it's just that the thing I hate wasting most is my own effort!

------------------------------------------------------

On to new updates this disaster has caused one suicide in the gulf by a fisherman scared about his future financial impact (it's sad, but I'm not going to judge and understand why he made that choice) and on top of that hurricanes from developing storm systems have become a reality which will put a halt to containment efforts along with spread the mess.

I didn't see anyone who has updated these two things being shown on the news so I thought I'd add it.

To look good, to impress others, for their reputations, to gain power, to gain admiration, to play a part in controlling others, to make others indebted to them, for opportunities based on character to be offered, to push their products and innovations, free publicity...

Do I need to continue?

just butting in to point out that as a christian, good deeds DOES NOT get you into heaven. In fact, if that is your intent then that is the way to MISS OUT in going to heaven

Just out of curiosity, how far down the foodchain does this "you work in Extractive Industries, you are EVIL" thing go?

The directors and senior executives are evil, OK, what about the owners of the companies, do the shareholders count (1/4 of all Australians). The people directly driving haul trucks, draglines, longwall drillers, OK, they've sold out and are happily destroying the environment for $120,000 a year, what about the employees of CAT, Detroit, Terex, Bucyrus, Euclid, Hitachi and other heavy machinery employees, what about the people in Bridgestone making the tyres?

The cleaners of MAC camps and ESS, they're solely there to service mining, and the cooks on site, the people supplying food too?

Where's the line drawn?

Personally I find it vaguely insulting. I'm in mining because I enjoy the work; I get paid the same whether I'm doing the footings for hospitals, ferry terminals or coal handling and preparation plants so really haven't "sold out" for the money. I could rant on about it, or I can do this instead; shrug my shoulders and let the person who lives in a cave, dressed in skins and hunting their own foot with a flint spear throw the first stone (or spear). ONLY if you do not consume any of the products which we produce can you condemn us for providing the raw materials in the first place.

yes, but why is firetom hunting his own foot? Is he like a puppy?

I must be evil too because I have driven 2000kms this week.

I'm not sure though whether America is home to "a more compassionate or enlightened environment and culture" and - to me - the Stanford and 3rd wave experiments are part of its proof. For one we should not forget that most American people have been/ are siblings of Europe... and that torture of prisoners or exploitation of power is to be observed throughout the cultures.

Get a diesel car that will run on vegetable oil!

Also butting in: Genghis Kahn, Gandhi and Hitler would all get into heaven if they repent and accept Christ, as far as Christianity goes. I believe that good acts and a high conscionable code of ethics is the foundation for heaven in this life.