"Sexy/ Sleazy fire" - your opinions please

Well said Pele. though I find it hard not to look at a naked woman dancing - which is why I'd encourage them to improve their skills - call me ... whatever suits you

And it's exactly what I felt re. "Burlesque" ... it is kind-a "Cabaret" no? It has to have a storyline (which usually is "funny")...

Tom, yes neo-Burlesque is very similar to a traditional European Cabaret and/or Vaudeville show. Each act is a vignette telling it's own story.

However, traditional Burlesque is more similar to an off-Broadway show, even in its length~ usually 60-90 minutes~ and the story spans the entire time. It usually even includes acts.

I'm sure you find it hard not to look at a naked woman ;), most people do look...with varied reactions. No harm, no foul in that.

However, skills and performance are two very different things and one need not have high end or exceptional skills to deliver an amazing performance. I can think of a huge list of performers who fall into this. Just like some amazing performances do not require skills at all. They are exclusive but go well together.

In my eyes, the "nudity" is a costume choice, not a performance/skill choice.

that's a nice way to put it and it should be this way.

Neither I mind nudity, nor does that necessarily hold sexual innuendos. I watch because of aesthetics. To me there is no greater work of art on this planet than a female body and I'm quite sensitive on the point re. "grace ./. disgrace". NOT only regarding 'morality' but also what she might feel about herself in that moment (which could be a projection, I admit).

My performances in the BDSM scene had been part of a greater scheme and setting and I witnessed some of what was going on. I felt that as long a performer was in harmony with his/her act, it was naturally appealing. A performance where s/he was simply using clichés or not in tune with, was simply appalling.

That might/ might not apply to the entire "trade" and to performance in general - if one simply does it for means to make money (fast) then it lacks character. And a performance needs soul.

You know what I mean? You can feel when it comes from the heart and with a smile. Like "wah, here I am and I do enjoy my way of expressing myself"

It's difficult in an environment which is in the twilight of social morality, given that. Which is more of why I did start this thread: you choose a costume, better try live up to it.

I love it when ladies get naked or near naked while playing with fire...but i love strippers too...

and I wanna thank PT Barnum.

Entertainment is what a lot of this is, and if some people like the sort of fire spinning where it's very sleazy, then that's their business.

I also think it degrades the real performers that have spent hours of hard work into improving their skills, and performances.

It's a tricky situation, because people should be able to do what they want, but if it's going to involve that much nudity or near nudity, I think it should be an entirely different form, kind of its own little sub-genre, if you will.

Though it's hard for me to judge people going nude while spinning, as when I spin fire, I go shirtless. Less of a fire hazard...

to HoP Microwe - maybe if more female would spin topless it wouldn't be any deal at all

Yeah, but I'm a guy..Honest mistake Tom.

Wouldn't have thought otherwise - there may be 0.00000001% female spinners out there who would spin topless for no incentive.

that's been a joke - a bad one admittedly

I go shirtless, does that count? It gets me hit on a lot

Well, that and the fact that there's sweet lights / fire spinning around you. That kinda helps..

and your worried about not having a girlfriend

Ha Ha! I will not say anything other than, very nice to watch, until after August 3rd about Vinny's spinny.

Might help in your case...

On a serious note: Not too many male strippers out there... Maybe it's in the eye of the beholder, but would there be lower expectation to their level of artistry compared to female performances?

First - thanks Pele for your explanation! I don't think any of the burlesque shows I have seen have a story... that's why I thought it was just stripping.

In regards to male strippers, I can't say I've seen a whole lot, but we have been looking at a lot of stripper websites lately and I have to say that out of the 50 women... I would say I find most of the at least slightly attractive and around 50% very attractive. But the male strippers.. maybe because women have very particular tastes, or men have lots of different body shapes while most female strippers are homogenous, I don't know. I would say that I don't find them as attractive as the females...

Maybe attractive/good bodied men can model instead of strip, while there are a LOT of girls who want to model?