Any interest in a Non-toxic Fire Breathing Fuel?

Hi,

I'm a research chemist who learned Fire Breathing a few summers back and loved it. However, the one thing that turned me off to it was the idea that even using good form, it is possible to aspirate droplets of liquid paraffin (lamp oil), and because it does not break down in the body, it can build up over time and pretty much ruin your lungs. I really haven't touched it in a while because I'm paranoid and a bit of a hypochondriac.

Recently, I've been designing a fuel that is totally bio-compatible and able to be broken down by the body. Obviously, there is still a slight risk of chemical pneumonia (you can get CP from milk if you accidentally inhale it), but it would at least have a much shorter breakdown time in the body than liquid paraffin or kero. Toxicity is super low - LD50 is above 5g/kg, essentially as toxic as table salt.

The physical properties are the same or even better than paraffin, as I can tweak the viscosity and flashpoint for ideal Fire Breathing. And it tastes better than kero. I'm also think about creating multiple grades of flashpoint - low for vapor tricks and eating, medium for breathing, high for spinning/fire dancing.

It's not biodiesel, though it is similar. Renewable, green, environmentally friendly, biodegradable.

It's not FireWater/Pegasol/3440/alkanes/iso-parrafins/lamp oil/lighter fluid, either (All of those are high purity C12-C16 saturated aliphatic paraffins).

I don't have an MSDS at the moment because a) it's still in R&D and b) I'm trying to maintain intellectual property. But I can assure you it is no more dangerous than high-purity food-grade biodiesel. I plan on using it myself, after all, and I'm paranoid about my health

I might even be able to do colors.

My question to fellow firebreathers is, would you be willing to buy a product like this over lamp oil or kero? I need to know if this stuff would be marketable (I'd probably start small selling at booths at Faires, etc).

Second, if you would be willing to buy something like this, how much would you be willing to pay for it? Around here I can get a liter of lamp oil for $5. I haven't priced out the bulk costs, but I'd shoot for $5-10 per liter for this stuff.

Thank you so much for your input!!

Hi,
As a future doctor, I'd love to keep the health risks of fire spinning as low as possible, so having something non-toxic (as possible) would be excellent. Of course, shipping to Oz would inflate it (depending on where you are) but I think I'd consider it.. (I don't fire breath btw, this is just for spinning and eating.)

consider franchising

The problem would be in the shipping as many countries do not allow flammables to go airmail. I know Canada does not

Be very careful what you call "non-toxic". If the LD50 is >5g/kg you could say it has low acute toxicity but to say non-toxic is misleading as you have no idea of the long term effects of ingesting or inhaling it. It may well be better than traditional fuels, I dont know, but you should not claim things you cannot back up with good science. Comparing it to salt on the basis of its acute toxicity is misleading as they are totally different chemicals. In my opinion inhaling or ingesting any flammable liquid over a long period of time is likely to have some detrimental (toxic) effect, whether that manifests clinically or not.

I realize that; this stuff is very benign and has decades of exposure analysis on it. But obviously it can still cause irritation if used in a non-approved manner, and may have some long term effect if used in this manner (which is why I'm most likely not going to market it specifically as a Fire Breathing fuel - I'm thinking I probably have to sell it as a fire art fuel and let people do what they want with it). I can't foresee that. But I can't imagine it being any worse than paraffin or kero that breathers are already exposed to chronically.

Flammability (or combustibility, as they are different) alone is not a good indicator of safety - most things people consume are combustible.

Flammable - Flash point below 70C
Combustible - Will burn, but the flash point is above 70C

(exact number varies by location)

This stuff is combustible, and therefore not restricted.

I like this idea very much!! I'm am not a breather of fire but I do eat fire and would be willing to pay in order to have a healthier way to do it. Please keep all of us (ESPECIALLY me) informed of possible buying opportunities.

I would like to know how it burns though. Is it orange and smokey or is it bright clean flame? Does it burn fast and hot or slow and cool? etc.

I didn't say that flammability was an indicator of toxicity. However most fuels used in fire arts are made up of mixtures of hydrocarbons and their derivatives and therefore are quite similar in terms of how they are handled by the body and what the inherent hazards are. ingestion and inhalation particularly are pretty good ways of getting chemicals into the body too. Put these two things together and you have a pretty risky scenario, whatever fuel you are using. I'd be happy to see myself proved wrong though, provided no ones health is put at risk in the process.

but Fire Breathing fluid as in "highly purified paraffin" already exists... what would be your innovation here?

Because highly purified paraffin is still alkanes, which don't break down easily in the body. This stuff is broken down by the body into fatty acids and alcohols, things which we are constantly exposed to. There are no saturated hydrocarbons (aka alkanes aka paraffins, gotta love common names) in this material.

Nature can break down alkanes, but at pretty slow rates, and it's mostly done by anaerobic bacteria.

Hmmm, interesting.

I'm interested, I tend not to do Fire Breathing at the moment due to some of the health risks, but I admit, my curiosity is piqued at this.

As with Flint... I'd like to know the flame characteristics (burn time, raw flame color, heat of flame, size of flame, etc - anything else you can think of). Sounds like it could be good, and if this can pull off colors without the normal wick degradation for fire staff, etc, then it would be pretty darn cool.

Mike - I see, sounds very interesting you definitely got all my attention. Would there be any advantage in using it for spinning?

As to the distribution topic I would seriously consider franchising... shipping dangerous goods is a painer.

I'm able to, but rarely do cause of the health risks and whatnot. However what always got me about the dangers of Fire Breathing was not the long term buildup but the ARDS. To be honest I don't know much about the way this stuff works, but I would assume that fuel, no matter what you use, would still pose the risk of being inhaled and then messing with you big time. Another thing to worry about is its flash point as well as other risks it poses to the body.

Granted as someone who loves Fire Breathing I would love to see a safe fuel out there, but I've pretty much convinced myself that such a thing won't exist. So yeah, if you can make it safer I'm behind you all the way, just very cautious at the same time.

This would be a great hit in the Fire Guild here. Most to all of the bigger performers do it and some do it to the point where they feel crappy and they have to restrict themselves to a certain amount of Fire Breathing per year or moth or whatever. I don't do it hardly for these very reasons. I do do it now and them for fun or always if I'm payed.

cool ideea with that fuel!if I could buy something less toxic than paraffin I will shorely buy it, no matter the price!after all is my health I'm playnig with... but how about highly purified alcohool...like everclear or something like that?I saw that it is used in Fire Breathing too..I'm curious if this stuff is more dangerous than paraffin or not(interested in cancer or chemical pneumonia)!?

Hey!!...after posting my comment I searched more about fuels and I've found something interesting...in my country old people used in the back days some kind of fuel made from petrol double rafined to deal with larynx problems and much more...it is said that is good for cancer is like a natural cytostatic, good for stomach problems, etc...it is a product of natural pharmacy!! the same fuel it was used in the past at the home lamps instead of electricity...so I guess that is the best fuel for Fire Breathing..the only problem is that is not used anymore and it is very hard to find....I will make a research on this and if I find this fuel I will let you know!!

Do not use Everclear! Not only is it prone to trailing back to your face, but the fumes from a couple breaths of fire will make you drunk, and if you're drunk you are going to up.

As SoD clearly stated, don't use Everclear. Alcohol has a low flashpoint which enables the use of the human candle technique against your will.

Interesting. I've always played around with the idea of building some kind of squeeze bottle with a spray nozzle that fits in the cavity of your mouth for safe Fire Breathing. You'd still have to worry about apirating the fuel, but ingesting it would never be a problem. Of course I couldnt be bothered to actually manufacture it, but I firlmy agree some kind of safer Fire Breathing methods should be invented since people will be stupid enough to do it anyway.

I know bringing up animal testing will probably piss off a lot of people here, but will there be any kind of actual research done on the health risks of long term exposure to the product before actually putting it on the market as a safer fuel? Is it not possible that the smoke made from the digestible fuel could potentially be more toxic than normal fuels?

@Warrior Drake, entheogen - Unfortunately, I don't think there is any way around the risk of ARDS, as I mentioned, you can get it from getting ANYTHING in your lungs, even benign stuff like milk or oil. This is the body's natural response to any foreign material in the lungs.

I've decided that I would derive the fuel from things with already well-established safety profiles. After doing a bit of market research, I've decided that obtaining, repackaging, and distributing this stuff (let alone legal concerns) would be quite the chore by itself, and is of bigger concern to me than someone else figuring out what's in it.

Here is a compound I am considering as the main ingredient:
http://www.pgchemicals.com/resources/msds/CE-1095.pdf
I haven't tried it out myself yet because I'm still waiting on my sample to arrive, but I plan on demonstrating with it once I get some (and some free time).

I don't think there is or ever will be testing on its safety with respect to Fire Breathing, and as such I anticipate I won't be able to market it as a 'Fire Breathing fuel' per se (I'd have to do something weasely like give it a name suggesting of Fire Breathing, but market it as a poi fuel with a word of mouth advertising amongst firebreathers to use it as a breathing fuel). However, it breaks down into methanol and caprylic acid (a fatty acid, i.e. take three of these and glycerine and you get a fat molecule), both which we are naturally exposed to all the time (and the methanol is not released fast enough to be of an issue - you'd get more methanol in your blood from drinking a glass of wine).

I doubt that it or its smoke could be any more toxic than isoparaffin.

This is a compound that might be used in a lower flashpoint material:
http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9923989
It has a flashpoint of ~120F, vs 55F for Everclear. Still flammable though (below 140) and therefore a bit of a DOT transport issue.

@Icarus Forde - Could you elaborate on what you mean by wick degradation due to colored flame fuels? I assume you're using kevlar or fiberglass wicks.